Mark Hunter, Second Mate (MM&P)
Mark Hunter, Second Mate - MM&P Hiring Hall - 17 October, 2025
“They would take ships that they knew were going to lose their certificate of inspection, and they would load up not only the holds with grain for doing US Aid, but they'd load up the ballast tanks as well and get as much cargo moved as they could. Completely illegal, as far as I know, but it hasn't really happened during the span of my career, I’ve only been sailing since 2007. I think some older masters and chief mates or sailors that were around back then could give you the finer points on that, but to my knowledge that is how they were doing a lot of dry bulk moving.”
My name is Mark Hunter. I'm 50 and I sail as second officer. I'm here in Oakland bidding on a third mate's job. Most junior officers will sail in both the third and second mate rank. It's often based on when they want to be home for holidays, or events with their family, and not so much the job or the pay.
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I came to this life at 29 - this was plan D me. - It wasn't like I knew about it and just resisted coming. Seafaring is kind of a well-kept secret. I grew up on a farm on a river, and watched the Great Lakes ships go by every day, except for two months out of the year when the freeze-out happens. We used to shoot BB guns and golf balls at the hulls of these ships, and we never really thought about the people that were on board.
I remember when my dad said you should go to one of the Merchant Marine Academies and sail. I was a young man, still a kid really, and I thought to myself that sounds awful. How do they eat? Do they catch their meals? Just absurd questions. When you're not doing this, when you have no experience in doing this, you really have some kind of outlandish ideas about life aboard a vessel.
I never considered this until I was living in New York City. I was out there chasing dream C. A friend of mine and I had both run our course in what we were attempting to do, and decided we had to be something when we grew up. We were at the end of our 20s. We were drinking iced coffee, or maybe it was beer, I don't remember. My apartment was on in Washington Heights overlooking the Hudson River, and he said, “Man, I bet the guys on those tugboats make a lot of money.” And I said, “Yeah, I bet they get a lot of respect, too.” Both of us remember that, and when we talk to each other we laugh and laugh because nothing could be further from the truth.
I mean, you do earn a decent living, but like anything else, you find a way to let your lifestyle catch up to it. And there's never enough money, especially when you're mortgaging half your life away. You know?
And then the respect thing is, I mean … you go into bars where people don't know sailors and they find it interesting, and they'll ask you questions like you're an astronaut. But the office certainly doesn't respect you, and the governmental forces that are trying to offshore your job to flags of convenience, they certainly don't respect you.
It was just kind of a Pollyannish thing to think at the time. I suppose the respect that we were looking for was just the self-respect that we made something of ourselves. Not necessarily respect from any one person or group of people, but that we had followed through on a dream and accomplished something.
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I ship out of here (Oakland), LA, sometimes Seattle. I used to ship out off the East Coast, that's where I went to Maritime College, but there's a few reasons - cultural reasons, logistical reasons, personal reasons - that I ship off of the West Coast and I think it's gonna stay that way for good now. My brother lives in Lake Tahoe. And when I know that there's not work for a few days during the winter I like to go up and see him, see my niece and nephew, ski. So that's a big thing for me.
I lived in Portland, Oregon, and Seattle, Washington, for a total of four years. I fell in love with being on the West Coast - the landscape, the nature. I graduated high school in 1993, so Seattle wrote the soundtrack to my youth. And that is something that just sort of sticks with me. That music is always playing in my mind.
And then it's weird. On the East Coast the people who are the most flag-saluting, tax-paying, ass-kissing Republican types love to stay on the East Coast and sail with Maersk. Maersk is a good company. They pay well. The ships are in good shape. But these people ascend into the top four positions - master, chief mate, chief engineer, first assistant engineer. They’re annoying to be around because they're making a great living, but they vote against unions. That sort of mentality, that whole right-wing mentality, has permeated into every other aspect of work and life. You can't even go to the mess deck anymore without these people who are otherwise intelligent spewing off some Fox News bullshit. I went to the University of Michigan. I got a history degree and an economics degree. It doesn't fly with me.
I grew up on a farm, in the Midwest, in a military family. Nobody can say you're just indoctrinated to think that way. I was actually indoctrinated in the other direction. I came to this conclusion on my own, based on evidence. And instead of really pushing back where these people have a grip on your career, I thought it was just better to go to where people are more likeminded, more favorable.
The labor movement is a favorable thing to us. You know, not too far from here is where those sailors died in a labor dispute. The ILWU is very strong. The SUP is very strong. The MMP is very strong. As frustrating as it can be to deal with some of these other unions and what they do, I want them to have a strong union. Number one we're all AFL-CIO. And once those unions become weak, (then) we are weak.
I'm very much - more than anything else - a labor Democrat. I think it's important to protect high-paying blue-collar jobs instead of sending them to flags of convenience like the Philippines or Monrovia (Liberia). I want to keep those jobs here, even when I'm no longer sailing. These jobs are important to have.
I don’t care if this appears on the internet. I don't care. I feel like this is a perfect way for me to scream it from the mountaintops because it's daunting to just wait until you encounter someone on a ship or in the hall and try to have this conversation. You know I think these are important conversations to have and I think they should be transparent, people should know what's going on.
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Currently the loop, as we call it, is you depart your home port and then you do the foreign leg, and you come back and run the coast. Then you go back to your home port. The difference between a voyage and a contract is that a full contract is 120 days, and a loop or voyage, is much smaller than that.
Before COVID it was a 42-day loop - LA, Oakland, Yokohama, Naha, which is Okinawa, Busan 1, Singdao [often spelled Tsingtao and also known as Qingdao], Shanghai, and then Busan 2. And then you come back home via the Tsugaru Straits, which is the passage between Hokkaido and Honshu, the big island in Japan. Beautiful! Absolutely beautiful, especially in the winter with the snow cap mountains. It's absolutely amazing.
When COVID came around I don't think APL had dedicated berthing in certain spots. I’m not 100% sure on that, but they got delayed in places, often weather-related, and they expanded that contract to a 49-days.
Now they often come back well shy of that. This past summer I was on an APL vessel, and we were home in 46 days. It’s (now) usually between 44 and 49 days that that loop is done. Now the rumor is that there will be no more Oakland. It will be L.A., Yokohama, Naha (Okinawa, Japan), and then, I'm assuming, one big Busan instead of a Busan 1, and a Busan 2. How they're going to go about that, I'm not sure. I don't know if they're going to team up with a company in a flag-state that doesn't have to pay the new wharfage fees in China, or even how that works. But it sounds like they'll be coming back with close to a full profile from one visit to Busan. That's going to shorten that trip to, I'd say, 35 days. I can't be sure about that, but I know on the Matson runs Oakland, L.A., Honolulu, Guam, Ningbo, Shanghai and then back, is 35 days. So I think the APL loops with those ports would be a similar timeframe, maybe even a little less.
[Ifyou come back early, if your contract is for 39 days and you get back in 36], you only get paid for your time on board. I don't know that anyone's ever made a stink about that. I just take whatever days I can get and then register as soon as I get back. [There is an incentive for a seafarer coming off a ship to go immediately to the hall, get their card timed-stamped, then go on vacation. When they return for work, if more than one qualified seafarer wants a posted job, who gets it is based on qualifications, time in the union and time waiting - card seniority. All things being equal, the seafarer with the oldest time-stamp gets the ship.]
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If the rumor is correct and APL leave China, I don't know that anyone in my industry, in my union, is gonna complain about cutting out Shanghai.
Back when we were allowed booze on the ships we had Shanghai “rearview” parties. That meant Shanghai was in your rearview mirror, bust the beer out, we're going to have some beers on the way home.
We're no longer allowed alcohol on ships. So we don't have the Shanghai rearview mirror parties, but they even had a sticker made up that looked like a rearview mirror with the skyline of Shanghai in it.
The reason is they are an authoritarian, totalitarian type of state that’s at odds with us, even though the economies kind of work with each other.
They're always looking to nail us on something. For example, they (the Chinese) would have cameras set up to see who was not wearing a mask outside on deck as if we were the ones that took the disease to them. And then they would report it back to the ship. People would get fired. I can think of one instance where someone got fired. That wasn't a US ship, that was one of Matson's foreign flag ships, with a foreign crew, where I think somebody got fired. But yeah, they'll come on and inspect all your documents. You really got to have your shit in order, otherwise, China will ding you.
Those visits during COVID were pretty wild They would have these automated things. It was a camera with a speaker and a microphone. Everyone would have to stay inside the accommodation space on the ship during cargo, and you would have to call the agent to get permission to go out and check the lines. As the ship raises and lowers based on the tide and the cargo coming on and off the lines have to be adjusted so that you don't part them, and to keep the ship alongside the berth. They're very tight berths, there's not much room between your stern and the next ship, or your bow and the next ship. So you'd have to call the agent, get permission to go check the lines and when you would walk outside the accommodation space these machines on a tripod would say something like, ‘Go back to your accommodation, go back to your accommodation’.
So the robots, it was like post apocalyptic robotland telling you to go back. Or they’d say, ‘What are you doing, Bob’?, like the Space Odyssey movie. That was surreal. And then you'd walk forward or aft to go check the lines and all the stevedores that were on deck would scurry like you were some disease ridden being that was going to infect them. Their government has got the messaging down. Their worker bees were convinced that we were the ones that brought them this deadly disease. So I'm not gonna complain about not going to China.
I think it's gonna hurt our economy ultimately. And I think with the leadership that we have, leadership, ‘quote unquote’, it's going to get way worse. China is an important economic partner, even if I don't like their model of government.
Donald Trump started a trade war, despite not having really any good economic policy in his quiver to use. The man has no understanding of international economics or domestic economics. I am 100% certain that this trade war he started has brought about these retaliatory wharfage and pilotage fees. Probably all sorts of other fees on anything US owned, crewed, built, flagged. They're covering their bases. And I'm certain that, if the rumor is true, APL is going to be trying to avoid.
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There two triangles, both domestic. One is the northern triangle, and the other the southern. The company that operates these, well, there's two actually, but when we talk about triangle ships, we're talking about Matson. The Matson domestic triangle on the northern end is: Seattle, Oakland, Honolulu, Seattle, Oakland, Honolulu. They're two-week loops. They're completely domestic. You always have fresh produce, and fresh fruit on board. You never have to clear customs. You get a decent amount of time in port, at least in Honolulu, and at least on one of the ports on the mainland side.
And then the southern triangle is: Oakland, L.A., Honolulu, Oakland, LA, Honolulu. Also a two-week loop, same kind of benefits.
And lots of overtime on those ships, so they're pretty highly coveted. They can be difficult assignments to get, especially the second mate jobs.
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[During COVID] I went to a ship where I honestly thought it was going to be great. It was my first second mate job. I was in the hall in New York for exactly one day when I got it. And I knew one of the captains on the ship. We had sailed together earlier in our careers, and I think this was his first captain's job. I thought it was going to be fun. I thought I was going to learn a lot. It didn't exactly work out that way.
Sometimes the job kind of gets at people. My friends and I say you know ‘so-and-so is sailing master now’ and we'll say, ‘Yeah but has he become a captain?’, meaning has he turned into a dickhead.
The reason that trip turned out bad is mainly because of Covid. I got stuck on for it was 198 days. I'd have to go back and check my discharge on that, but it was almost seven full months.
The morale was terrible. Because those are low-paying ships, and you don't get the best people to begin with, and now you've got people not knowing when they're going home.
The (shipping) office is telling the masters that people are going to go home in four-person increments, so they could only swap out four people at a time.
We could not go home or arrive in Japan. I can't remember if we could go home or arrive from Guam, so that meant the only place we could go home, or arrive to the ship from was Korea. And that was where we loaded. This was a tanker that was contracted to work with the Navy. We'd haul around mostly jet fuel. We hauled around a little bit of diesel, but that was kind of a one-off thing - a voyage we took to Diego Garcia.
But, yeah, the steward somehow weaseled out of having to stay and then the cook weaseled out of having to stay. Then after I finally went home in early July with five or six people on a 777 from Korea - that was crazy - I was told the cook finally went home, but they didn't replace them. So the Steward’s assistant, the person that wipes down the tables, refills the condiments, and washes the dishes, they're now running the galley.
And there were some other shenanigans going on with that person. I can't speak firsthand, but I know that there were favors of a sexual nature that were being sold. I know that there was winter gear being pilfered off of the ship and taken home and being sold on eBay. It was bad.
Right before I got off I got, I don't want to say attacked, but I got accosted by the AB on my watch. Nobody knows why. He may have not liked me, or maybe just he cracked under the COVID. I don't know.
I'm a pretty non-confrontational mate. You know as long as the AB on watch steers when they're told to steer, and doesn't fall asleep on watch, I really don't care what they do. You're pretty much up there by yourself anyway. I'm not relying on the ABs to point out to me when they see a target. I usually see it on the radar and the AIS [Automatic Identification System], and out the window before they do anyway. Every once in a while I'll tell them, I'm going to be predisposed for a couple of minutes, can you keep a sharp eye? But anyway, I don't know what this dude's deal was, but I'm just going to chalk it up to COVID, and not being able to go home because I'll probably never get a straight answer.
So, bad trip. I was still an applicant then, but luckily I had put in so many days on that voyage that when I got home I was on the short list for membership (in MM&P). So I got my book after that trip, and I made a ton of money. I mean (it was a) low paying ship, but for me at the time it was a ton of money. So that was nice.
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I'm on my second marriage.
So you get contracts for 120 days, and I now only take container ship liners. Liners are the ships that run on a set schedule, to set places; like a subway or a city bus.
The reason that I only take those ships now, you can take a relief trip. You do the loop which is anywhere between 35 and 49 days, depending on the company and the ship. After that first or second loop you can comeback and take 35, or 49 days off. You can take one trip off. So at the most, I'll be gone for three months. I can come home for a month and a half and then go back and finish up my contract.
It keeps the work spread out. It keeps me coming and going so that I can touch base with my child, my step-kids, my wife. I have some activities that are sort of seasonal dependent, so sometimes I'll take a trip off to go skiing, visit my brother. I play on a couple of men's league hockey teams, so sometimes when I can, I'll schedule my work around those dates, if it's critical.
But there are guys, or people I should say, that will sail until they get kicked off. They'll stay out there for 180 days. In the case of COVID, there were people that were stuck on longer. There was one ship during COVID, a liner ship, that had gone to China and got stuck there. They had difficulty getting food. They certainly couldn't do any crew changes. When they finally broke out of there it was like the Sand Pebbles, the Chinese government hot on their tail. I wasn't on that ship, and I only remember speaking to a couple of people that were. I don't know if I got the straight dirt on everything that happened, but they were essentially stuck there.
I try to sail more than one contract per year. The way contracts vary - the way you can take the trips off - they don't always break on the fiscal markers of the year. But I'll try to do a full contract, and maybe one relief trip. And then before the new fiscal year starts I will try to have initiated another contract.
You can't sail while you're on vacation. That prevents people from double dipping. So by the time your vacation has expired, and you go back into the hall, you have a nice four-month-old card which hits a lot heavier than having a one or two month old card. When you get stuck taking relief trips your card is always young - you're always coming to and from, right?
I live in Ann Arbor, Michigan. I don't live on the West Coast, so it's not like I can just grab a nice coffee and saunter on down to the union hall for job call at 11 o'clock. This requires a lot of planning for me, and a lot of making sure everything's in order before I disappear for a little while.
So I try to take full contracts, although there are people that live on taking relief trips.
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Mark Hunter, Second Mate
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Photo: Robert Gumpert
Transcription: Michele Colyer